my thoughts on homosexuality

by - 5/08/2015 05:38:00 pm

I might as well weed out the unfollowers by starting off with my view. I have no problem with homosexuality and I don't see it as a sin. I wouldn't say that I 'support' homosexuality—how do you support something that isn't an 'issue' that needs to be solved? At least, that's my view.

I have several reasons for making this post. One is that in the Blogger world, I seem fit into the minority of atheism. Another is that I've recently read maybe three posts that are against gay marriage, or view homosexuality as a sin, and I feel obliged to voice my views. But most importantly, I know many gay/bisexual people who are sick of the misconceptions, the lies and the insults. So I see it as my duty almost to show you the other perspective.

I really respect you, the readers, which is why I've strayed from my usual light-hearted tone to a serious one. I want you to know that I'm not like many of you, but in a way, I am one of you, a fellow Blogger, and I will show you the same respect regardless of your opinion.

Some views I have on homosexuality:
+ homosexuality is not a choice
+ homosexuality is not a sin
+ homosexuality is not a lifestyle

Before I tell you why, I want to make it clear that I know Christians get a lot of hate for being against same-sex marriage, and I absolutely condemn this hate. It's your opinion, and although I disagree, I want us to establish a mutual respect and acknowledge that we both have valid reasons.

Also, you may be a Christian who has no issue with gay people, or an atheist who does. I acknowledge the fact that views do not necessarily correlate to religion, and I accept this.

Kevin Rudd, former PM of Australia, Christian and supported gay marriage. via

Homosexuality, I believe, is not a choice. Now, this is may not be 100% true (nothing rarely ever is) and largely debatable, but I place my faith largely on science, similar to those who place faith in God, and most scientists seem to agree that it isn't.

More importantly, however, it just seems to make sense. I want you to think about a crush you've had. Did you consciously 'choose' to feel attracted to that person? Maybe you chose to stop resisting feelings for that person, or you chose to date that person, but you don't necessarily look at someone and go, "Right, now I choose to be attracted to you." *becomes attracted* 

When you look up sexual orientation/sexuality/sexual preference in the dictionary, it will be along the lines of "the sexual feelings you feel towards people".

In a society where discrimination against homosexuals is prevalent, it doesn't seem to make sense why gay people would hypothetically choose to remain gay. Of course, many are gay and proud, but life is easier for heterosexuals than it is for homosexuals.

Need proof?

82% of LGBT youth had problems during the previous year with bullying about sexual orientation.

64% felt unsafe at school due to sexual orientation. 

32% did not go to school for at least one day because of feeling unsafe.

42% of LGBT youth have experienced cyber bullying 


LGBT teenagers are two or three times more likely to attempt suicide than other teens

(Source: http://nobullying.com/lgbt-bullying-statistics/)

Julia Gillard, former PM of Australia, atheist and against gay marriage. via

I also hold the belief that homosexuality is not a sin. Why? To 'sin' is an action, and as I have explained, I believe that homosexuality, or any sexuality for that matter, is not a 'choice' or an 'action'. This also goes along with my view that homosexuality is not a lifestyle.

If you are a Christian, and you believe that homosexuality is a sin, I am still willing to listen to you, as long as you are willing to listen to me. I've always unsure about Christian fundamentalism, which relates to traditional Christian beliefs. And this is why:

I didn't always hold this view of homosexuality. I grew up with one Christian parent, and every Sunday since I was five I went to Church. You could say that I was a Christian who lost faith, but I don't think I had faith to begin with.

It confused me as I grew older why we preached anti-gay messages (by 'we' I mean our Church). Isn't the message of the Bible love? I still believe this is the message of the Bible. A diary entry from when I was in middle school reads, "Jesus loved us for who we are, and told us to love our neighbors as you love yourself." Why then, did we not accept our fellow neighbors on the basis of sexuality?

via

To say a racist comment is practically taboo these days (which is as it should be). But a few years ago, many people considered some races inferior on religious grounds (not only that, but it was one reason). This prejudice exists today is some areas, although thankfully it's not abundant.

Although comparing races to sexualities is generally not a great example, I did it. Because today, we continue to pick on people that differ from us. Instead of embracing more diversity, we shun it.

Although we're not talking about gay marriage, this gif is perfect. via

I think the world has improved a lot. We are far more accepting than our predecessors, and that makes me really, really happy. But we've still got a long way to go.

And though a utopia may never exist, we can always come close.

----

EDIT #1: I just wanted to thank Catalina and Neal for their really well-thought out replies. I've thought about what they've said, and it's true that my perspective revolves around a Western context. Catalina and Neal make good points about how in other religions, sexuality is very much a closed subject. Whilst the West debates about gay marriage, other parts of the world hold radically different views that can be ignorant, homophobic, or just simply different. But of course, it's all a matter of beliefs, and a diversity of beliefs is in no way 'bad', which is why I encourage you to check out their comments below!

EDIT #2: Wow, guys! So many respectful and thoughtful comments! Thanks to everyone who commented, it all helped me develop my ideas and views. Which, you know, is why I love discussions. Much love. :D

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37 comments

  1. I thought you might find my view interesting because I'm Muslim so anyway.
    Basically, when you say that being gay isn't a choice, it doesn't mean that you can go out and actually do the thing. Like Islam has strict regulations on the act of sex- even if you're straight, you CANNOT do it out of wedlock (or, the shariah says, you get whipped). So even if there's a kid whos probably gay, the question of his sexuality isn't supposed to come up until he/she is of a marriageable age. This might sound weird to you, but that's because the whole concept of modernism involves being open about intimate affairs whereas Muslim societies still keep everything wrapped.
    By that time, he/she would be old and mature and well versed in the Quran and stuff and he/she would realize that his tendencies aren't normal. The solution to that is given too- that if you cannot control your lust, you're supposed to fast and give charity and make dua and wait obviously because the life of the world is short compared to the eternity to come.
    That's the Islamic point of view and obviously, can't really be applied to a western society where most people are Islamophobic to begin with but I threw in my two cents. Hope you found it informative.

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    1. I'm editing my comment because I now understand what you meant by "it doesn't mean you can go out and actually do the thing", which I was confused about before. Neal helped. XD

      I didn't know those facts about Islam, and I'm really glad you shared them. Although considered forward-thinking countries, we still remain woefully ignorant of other cultures and religions. I really dislike it when media paints Islam with the same brush they use for terrorist groups, which is the root cause of Islamophobia in today's world. The west has a tendency to show off about the actions we're taking to accept diversity, which is good and all, but sometimes we use this to belittle other regions with drastically different cultures and take things out of context, which just shows that sometimes we're accept diversity just to be politically correct.

      Thanks for your insightful comment! :)

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    2. Thanks for the shout out Jo :)
      (I'm sorry if I sounded vague xD Like I said, the whole concept of sex is treated as a post marriage thing so it's kind of hard to discuss it outright)

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    3. No problem :)
      Yeah, I understand!

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  2. I'm a hindu and trust me it's worse in our culture kind of like how Catalina said..there is no sex education..if you have sexual urges you aren't normal..having sex before marriage is a sin..even having a boyfriend girlfriend is strained upon..let alone homosexuality.Although people are changing a little but I don't think they are at the stage where they are ready to accept homosexuality yet..okay let me tell you something embarrassing about myself..I grew up with 5 sister I have played all girly games possible..like with dolls and tea set etc etc.I don't enjoy wrestling or football neither am I a car/bike fanatic..have a bit of a feminine side if you will..my interests are considered feminine (Cooking..gardening..etc etc you get the point) and trust me a lot of people will easily accept that I am gay..they just don't understand the basic definition of the word homosexual for them it means a guy who is a girl.
    I don't have any problem with someone being homosexual unless they do stuff in front of me and I'd have the same problem with hetrosexual people as well so it's not something specific.I believe in privacy and who people like is their own business as it should be.I don't think people are comfortable coming out of closet in India yet.
    Infact there was a news recently regarding all this.There was a guy who was gay but was too afraid and pretended to be straight got married to a girl.He got to a point where he got so frustrated that he started torturing his wife.It's awful what society is doing to such people that makes them do awful stuff in return.Had his parents known he was gay they would have taken him to temple and done a lot of rituals on him.It's really awful.
    I like your views but I agree with Catalina as well because that is how it is in a lot of countries and religion.
    Also I'd like to point out a few awesome homosexual people : Neil Patrick Harris, Ellen DeGeneres, John Barrowman, David Burtka, Chris Colfer, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, IAN MCKELLEN!, Jim Parson,George Takei, Jane Lynch and many more!

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    1. I see. I think I'll add an update to include this information, thanks Neal! :D I was thinking about Western society, and I forget that in other parts of the world (maybe even most parts), things haven't even developed into thinking about homosexuality. It's cool that you like cooking and gardening (I do, too), but people shouldn't assume one's sexual orientation based on hobbies and interests. I'm not into a lot of 'girly' stuff like makeup, shopping, clothes, etc, but people don't assume I'm homosexual. I guess it applies more to guys than girls.

      I'm really happy that you don't have a problem with it, because I was expecting a lot of comments that were disagreeing with what I said about homosexuality not being a sin (in my opinion). It's terrible about the torture, our world needs better education on what it is and how we should act when confronted by it.

      Also, GANDALF. :D

      Thanks for the nicely thought-out reply! 'Twas fun to read. XD

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  3. LOL YAS JO <3 - jess ;)

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  4. I applaud you for writing this post; it's something I've wanted to do for a while, but I'm always wary sharing views about subjects such as this online.
    That aside, I agree whole-heartedly with all that you said. In a sense, I am religious: I was baptized and believe in God, and all that goes along with that. On the other hand, I can't recall the last time I've been in a church, or picked up a Bible. My religion views homosexuality as a sin, though my entire family believes there is nothing wrong with it. My mom always states that she,"wouldn't want anybody telling her who she could or could not love."
    And when it comes down to it, it's all just love, in different forms. Some love girls, some love boys, some love both, & some love none. Love is love, I think. Doesn't matter what way it comes. :}
    xo Adi

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    1. Thank you so much! I know people who are religious, but like you, don't see homosexuality as a sin. It's great to see such people in the blogging world. I'm glad you agree, and that quote by your mom is perfect. :)

      I agree with you. I've always been a bigger picture person, and that is how I see things as well. Thanks for commenting!

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  5. At 14 years old, I think all sexual stuff is gross.

    ...I am 14.

    I can't physically have an opinion that matters.

    At least so I'm taught.

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    1. XD it does seem quite gross. I'm only two years older than you, I think it's encouraging to see people of all ages thinking about worldviews such as this, but that's just my opinion. I'd love to hear your opinion on this, if you'd like to share it!

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  6. I'm imagining you posting this with a grim look, "All right, time to weed out the weak. Only the strong will survive." Which is sort of funny, except this is a serious topic.

    I love your perspective building on how homosexuality isn't a conscious choice -- to assume that would be to assume they "chose" to "deviate" from heterosexuality and is a heteronormative view in itself. And also love the add-on, because even though here in Hong Kong, there's much less active stone-them-at-the-crossroads hate, gay marriage seems to be such a long way off with subtle discriminations in society to be weeded out first, to use your term. I don't think we even have legislation preventing discrimination on basis of sexual orientation.

    I also would like to say that even if you subscribe to Christianity, it's necessary for you to pick and choose the bits of the Bible that are applicable in the modern world. Like, I'm pretty sure Christians don't obsess over whether their clothes are made of mixed fabrics or whether people work on Sundays instead of going to church, even though those are technically wrong. Religion has evolved from the ages of witch-burning and such, and I believe it can and should evolve past this issue too.

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    1. Of couse that's exactly what I did. "Natural selection is coming for you." XD

      I'm glad you liked my points! I haven't heard of serious issues in Hong Kong (it's more Russia and Middle East). I'm glad you told me though; it seems as though discrimination is prevalent in all parts of the world, however 'liberal' the country might be. I liked your use of my term. :)

      I agree 100%. I've actually seen the mixed fabric quote in the Bible. XD Maybe it's not meant to be taken so literally (by that I mean every sentence must be followed, although I've heard that the Bible has a few contradictory sentences). Thanks for your comment! :)

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  7. Thank you for writing this post! I'm a Christian and I agree with many of your points. I don't personally support homosexuality,* but I believe that, as a Christian, I am called by Jesus to show respect and love to everyone. I don't believe people should be treated differently because they're gay. It's ridiculous how some Christians treat gay people. It's based on the assumption that we are better than gay people, when in fact the Bible says that God sees everyone the same. Jesus died for everyone, not just straight, white americans.

    *[the main issue that Christians have with homosexuality isn't really the state of being gay. but we believe that sex is very special and sacred and that God designed it naturally for a man and a woman (to prevent disease/complications or whatever). however, this doesn't mean that we're supposed to force this belief onto others.]

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    1. Thanks to you, too! I didn't know that was the issue with it. I was confused about why being in a certain state is a sin, but now I'm seeing the other side of things. Kind of. I agree that it shouldn't be forced upon others. :)

      I'm really happy that you show everyone respect, regardless of sexuality! Most comments here (that are by Christians) seem to agree wih you, and that's encouraging to see. It is based on that assumption, you're right! These comments made my day. :D

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  8. I applaud you for writing this post, it was brave.

    I am a Muslim, and like Catalina said, we are actually not supposed to really think about our orientation until we are at an age when we are to be married. Plus, if we even dared to, you know, do the do, before we were married, it would be considered a horrible sin and God knows what would happen.

    ~Noor

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    1. Thank you. It wasn't really, I felt like I had to, you know? :')

      That's interesting. Sorry if I made you think about it, or almost think about it! I have little knowledge of Islam (my school educates us on Christianity only at the moment), and it was great to hear from you. Thanks for sharing! :)

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  9. I respect you so much for writing this post. It is definitely a brave thing to do.

    I am a Christian and I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. But I don't believe it's right to bully, persecute, mock, etc., homosexuals. Sure, I believe it's a sin, but I sin too. That's the whole reason I am a Christian; it's because I mess up and I know I can't make it on my own. So why should I, any Christian, or anybody for that matter, look down on someone else for doing something wrong? We all do wrong things and we're all fellow humans. We should love each other, not bring each other down. Humanity is flawed and so humans ought to be understanding toward each other because of that. This is just my point of view. I know other Christians have different viewpoints. But I have sinned. I know that my best friend has sinned, and yet I still call her my friend. It makes me think of the story about Jesus and the adulterous women who was going to be stoned. He said, "Whoever is without sin, may throw the first stone." (That was paraphrased by the way. I'm not sure if you know what I'm talking about, but I know you said you practically grew up in church, and I didn't want to be patronizing.)

    I do respect your beliefs though. I like that you know how to validate what you believe instead of just saying that you believe it. And again, I definitely respect you for posting this, especially since the blogging-sphere has a, surprisingly, strong Christian presence.

    Also what "probably abby" said is true. Christians hold sex special and scared and we have special rules for it (like how the Muslims and Hindus do, on the broad perspective, but different in the details). You probably know that though. And it still does not excuse Christians for throwing stones, not even metaphoric ones.

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    1. You're very kind. :)

      That seems to make sense, what you said about not looking down on a fellow sinner. But is it really a sin if it wasn't your choice? If you were born with it, or just happened to be homosexual? It's definitely debatable, and it seems to be here where most of my readers seem to disagree with me. I'm really glad you think it's wrong to harrass or be mean to someone because they are a homosexual. :) I've heard of the story before, and I didn't really grow up in a church. XD More like I was made to attend from when I was in third grade. Don't worry about being patronizing or anything, I don't mind!

      And I respect that you have your own beliefs. I respect you too, for this comment, it was very thoughtful and insightful. Thanks for showing me the same respect. :)

      That's true. I suppose the problem many Christians have is with homosexual behaviour, or homosexual sex? I'm still unsure, but things are clearer than they were before. Thank you for your comment!

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  10. As a Christian, I agree and disagree with aspects of this post- but you have written it so respectively and I don't want to pick a fight. I'm defiantly not going to stop following you because you voiced your thoughts- in fact, respect points to you!

    I would like to say though, that I don't think how you feel toward you own or the other gender is a choice- it's how you act on those feelings that matters :) And I think it's important to remember that everyone holds a slightly different point of view, even if they fall under a label such as "Christian", "Muslim" or "Atheist".

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    1. That's good to hear. If you want to pick a fight, do it LET'S GO BRING IT ONNN. Just kidding. XD I'm glad you didn't stop following me, it seems as though no one did, which is...yay.

      I agree! It isn't a choice. Your last sentence I agree with, too. In fact, Adaline proved that—a Christian who holds the same views as me. :) thanks for the comment!

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  11. This is 11000% correct. I completely support and share your views, and respect you for being open-minded enough to respect other's beliefs. It takes a really big person to be able to not only be open and proud of your beliefs, but to have the open mind to listen to Others is incredible. I haven't commented in ages but your blog is amazing, always fascinating and respectful of others. keep up the good work :)

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  12. I'm a Catholic and I think that it is absolutely ridiculous for people to be defined by their sexual orientation. Who you are attracted to does not define you. That being said, many people of a homosexual orientation tie their value to who they like or prefer and that's not right. Additionally, many people who are anti-homosexual "marriage" do the same when they refer to people as "gay" or "lesbian" as though that is what makes him or her a person. What defines us is that we are human beings, created in the image and likeness of God.

    Additionally, the Catholic Church teaches that there is nothing wrong with having homosexual inclinations. As a Catholic, this is what I believe.

    However, what is wrong is sexual acts with the same sex. Look at our bodies--women are designed for men, men are designed for women. Look at science. It just doesn't work for a woman to be with a woman or a man to be with a man.

    You may counter my argument by saying but if a man really desires a man, then they should be allowed to do whatever they want. Desire is temporary, it's fleeting. So if I desire to go murder, is that okay? No, it's not.

    I'm not saying people of a homosexual orientation are less, at all. I'm called to love all, and that's what I strive to do. But homosexual marriage is not right. Marriage is one man and one woman. A "union" of that sort between two men or two women is something different entirely.

    All the best. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

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    1. Of course! Your sexuality does not define you, I agree! :) It's good to know that you think there's nothing wrong with inclinations.

      Well, I'll have to disagree. I think science and morals are completely different things. It's fine if that's what you believe, but it should not dictate how others are to live their lives. Who are any of us to decide whether something is "wrong" or "right"? In the end, there are only universal truths. :)

      Also, I find murder and sexual acts are two very different things. The only connection is that they both stem from desire. I desire water when I'm thirsty, does that mean I should drink? Of course it does! :') What if a man and a woman desire each other and commit to sexual intercourse, should they do it? If they want to!

      On the topic of marriage, I believe definitions and traditions can be changed. Marriage is only between a man and a woman because we make it so. We make words, meanings change and we use them different as time goes by. Take 'jealousy', for example. It is a word that originally meant 'wanting to keep what you have', but nowadays we see it as a synonym of envy! I think in today's world, marriage has moved on from being just a religious ceremony. Athiests get married, afer all.

      No problem, thank you for sharing yours!

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  13. I'm also an atheist and to be honest I was surprised by how many bloggers write about religion and how common it is. Among my friends are people of all religions, but everyone is really touchy about it and we barely ever get to speak seriously about religion and similar topics -including homosexuality-, and so I find it very interesting when I happen upon such a post.

    I completely agree with you in everything you've said, but I don't believe it to a Christian thing to 'shun' homosexuals. Everyone has their own beliefs of right and wrong, and though they may be influenced by religion, I don't think all people will have the same opinion just because they believe in something/someone others don't.

    Your sexual orientation is most certainly not a choice. I like how you used the example of getting a crush on someone. Bravo for this post, Jo! You are amazing and I respect you so much for posting this. <3

    x Yasmine//Cloudy Dreams

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    1. Actually I missed/misread this part: 'Also, you may be a Christian who has no issue with gay people, or an atheist who does. I acknowledge the fact that views do not necessarily correlate to religion, and I accept this.', and thought you meant something else...sorry! Haha you have my complete agreement on this post then!

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    2. What?! Another athiest? It's a rare occurence. This is great!

      I'm glad you agree with me! Often my rants are hard to get through so I understand if you misread/skip through a certain part. :')

      Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm really glad that you agree it's not a choice, and that you liked me shoddy example, too!

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  14. I disagree with pretty much everything you said -- but you still won't be losing my follow either. :) Thanks for being respectful about it all!

    I won't try to rebuff everything I disagree about (unless you're interested in hearing it?), but I'll just say this: I am a born-again Christian, and believe the Bible, so obviously I agree that Jesus said to love one another. And of course there are Christians (or "Christians") out there who really do not love homosexuals, but it's important to understand what love is, and the difference between loving someone, and accepting their sins. There's a huge difference. To love someone you don't have to accept their sin. God doesn't. Sin is completely unacceptable to him -- but he still loves us. Fortunately we can separate from our sin and leave it behind because of Jesus. Love is wanting the best for someone -- wanting them to be safe and happy and free. It is not accepting them along with their sin, because if they still have their sin they are still in danger. What point is it to accept them so they'll be happy on earth if when they die they'll be in anguish for the rest of forever? It is better to tell them in love that what they're doing is wrong, even if it makes them uncomfortable, for the chance that they'll see and accept God's grace.

    Jesus didn't throw a stone at the adulterous woman because he loved her, but he also told her to "go and sin no more."

    Of course this is all from the Biblical standpoint of homosexuality being a sin, which I realize you disagree with. I guess my main point is that if true Christians preach against homosexuality it is strictly against homosexuality, and not against the people who practice it. Love is very important, and so is life. :)

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    1. That's fine. :) Thanks for following!

      If you want to share it, I'm all ears! Yeah, "Christians" that shun homosexuals never seemed to uphold the basic message of Christianity, which is love(?). Personally, it's precisely because it makes people uncomfortable that I believe we shouldn't try to help them "see and accept God's grace", to put in your own terms. You are free to do as you want, but it's very difficult to convince someone with no faith to believe in God. Take me, for example, my Church tried to convert me plenty of times, but I'm an athiest after spending twelve or so years of my life in various Churches/youth groups/Christian schools. Of course, you don't want them to go to Hell, but is it truly a good thing to tell someone that what they're doing is wrong not because of basic moral principles but because of what you personally believe? Especially if that sinner in question is a non-believer, and wants his/her beliefs to be taken into consideration.

      Things like murder/cheating/lying are morally wrong, whatever your religion (or lack of). But homosexuality? I must ask you to merely consider (not believe in) the idea that homosexuality is not a sin simply because homosexuals do not choose to become homosexuals. Whether they 'practise' it or not is a different question entirely, but most people cannot choose whom they are sexually attracted to (I say 'most' because some people claim they can, and who am I to dismiss their claims when there is not much evidence that dismisses their views? Although I still think it's not a choice, based on my research of this topic).

      Love and life are indeed important! Thanks for sharing your views. :)

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    2. If we didn't witness to people who don't have faith we wouldn't witness to anyone. The point is that faith is easy to obtain -- all you have to do is ask God for it. Love is the most important thing for believers, but for unbelievers I think it's more important to show them truth. The Bible encourages us to speak the truth in love. Both are important, and useless without the other.

      What you're saying makes sense from your perspective -- everyone's beliefs are personal and they have the freedom to choose. But does that mean they're all right? Look at me and you -- I believe in God, you don't. One of us has to be wrong. The Bible says Jesus is the only way to God and to heaven. From my perspective, anyone who doesn't believe that is going to die. So if I can help save them from death and hell by making them uncomfortable, of course I will try. And I would do it in love. Because of our differing beliefs, we treat people with love in different ways.

      I think it will be hard for us to see eye to eye on this topic because of my beliefs being based in the Bible, but here it is from my perspective: We're all born sinners, so it makes sense that some people are born with the tendency toward homosexuality. But the Bible calls it a sin, (in fact it uses the word "abomination") so it is. You can also be born with a murderous tendency, but that certainly doesn't give you a good excuse to murder anyone. I have heard testimonies of homosexuals who were saved. They gave up practicing homosexuality immediately, but were still tempted towards it for a long time. Fortunately temptation to sin is not sin. And eventually they were freed of the temptation and became attracted to the opposite sex again. I imagine it must be one of the most difficult things to turn away from, and only possible because of the Lord.

      Actually, I think that covers everything I disagree with in your post. The only other thing is that you say it's hard living as a homosexual. I believe that's true, and I'm very sorry for them. Especially since I believe they can choose to be free of it, and most people will tell them they can't.

      Thanks for taking the time to debate with me. :)

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    3. But if tendency to murder is not a sin, why is "the tendency towards homosexuality" a sin?

      "If I can help save them from death and hell by making them uncomfortable." But it does more than make people uncomfortable. I'll give you an example: abortion. It's wrong according to Christians. And it's more than uncomfortable when there are people outside abortion centers, telling pregnant women when they walk in that they are 'murderers' or 'sinners'. I've heard testimonies of these women, who believe that they did the right thing, but feel shame and guilt because of what those women said. I've heard testimonies of women who were raped and needed to get rid of the fetus, but hurtful things were said to them anyway. It hurts, it's not nice, and that's why it's not okay with me.

      Now, I'm not saying I can change your views. That's not my goal. My goal is for you to think from the other perspective, truly, if only just for a second. I have many bisexual friends. If you went up to one of them, any one, and told them they were sinners or that they were going to hell, they'd be a whole lot worse than uncomfortable. You can tell them to 'stop' being bisexual but won't work. Because they have faith that's as strong as yours, and it's that they know who they are attracted to is a product of nature, not that are an 'abomination'. While you may have good intentions, I find it downright unkind. Because when you tell them they are an abomination, or a sinner, you ignore that they have their own beliefs, you ignore that they have feelings, you ignore all that because you, and only you, believe in something so strongly that you feel as though you must tell homosexuals to 'fix' themselves.

      But it's not every sinner, is it? Everyone sins, but why do you target homosexuals and tell them to save themselves? If you make it your duty to tell homosexuals so they can change themselves, do you tell everyone you meet? Because everyone is a sinner, right? Everyone sins, and they can stop sinning but they will keep sinning no matter how hard they try. Does this mean they are going to Hell? Of course not, because the Bible says that you have to accept God's gift. You have to accept that Jesus died so your sins could be erased. It doesn't mean you shouldn't try not to sin, but it means that you are free from your sins. At least, that's from my knowledge of the Bible.

      I'm glad you acknowledge how hard it is to live as a homosexual, even in today's world. :)

      Whew, rant over. Sorry if I seem a little confronting, I'm passionate about this issue. It's nothing personal (when I say 'you', I'm talking about everyone with your belief, or anyone depending on the context). Thanks to you, too. :)

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    4. I did mean that -- the tendency toward homosexuality is no more a sin than the tendency toward murder. It's the act itself that is the sin.

      Abortion is totally different. When it comes to sparing the life of an innocent baby and the wounded feelings of the mother who will let someone rip it out of her, the choice to me is clear. Life before feelings, every time. But homosexuality itself doesn't take the lives of others. I would treat them the same as straight unbelievers, as long as they knew they were sinning. A murderer and a thief knows he's sinning, but most homosexuals will deny that their acts are sin. Otherwise they are the same as everyone else.

      I don't target homosexuals. You misunderstand me completely on that. I don't go randomly and rudely tell people they're sinners. That's something people think Christians do, but that's a rep we got from stuck-up legalistic air-heads who don't know the Bible or have common sense. :P I do target *homosexuality* (please remember there's a difference between the person and the sin!) because the topic is very prevalent in our society today. You were targeting homosexuality too, in this post -- just in the opposite way. There are a lot of people out there who casually say homosexuality is "okay" and the more people say it's fine the more people mindlessly believe it and fall into the misery it brings. If I say anything it is to provide an opposition to that lie, so that people at least won't believe that it's a one-sided issue.

      My first comment wasn't to say that homosexuals were sinners, or even to say that homosexuality is a sin. I believe both those things, but only because I believe the Bible implicitly. I would only debate with you on that if you claimed to believe the Bible too. But since you don't, and since I do, we don't have any common ground to stand on for this particular argument.

      To be continued in the next comment because of length.... sorry about that! :P

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    5. My comment was to explain the kind of love Christians are using when they don't accept homosexuality as "okay." To understand it, you have to try to understand what it means to be a real, born-again Christian. When you become a Christian everything changes. Just imagine -- an all-powerful and loving God saves you from the burden of sin and the pain of death and promises you a place in his kingdom that will last literally FOREVER. An eternity full of all things good and no things bad. The pain of this world is comparison is just a needle prick. But for those who reject his offer, the eternity is reversed, and there's nothing but horrible misery. No middle ground. Look from that perspective, and tell me which is kind: to tell other people about this free and wonderful gift, or, to encourage them down a path that leads to the eternal tortures of hell? Which is love: to tell them the truth, though it may hurt, that they are sinners and need help, and point them to the one who can help them and give them eternal joy, or, to stay silent, and let them be happy for a day, KNOWING that when they die that happiness will mean NOTHING for the rest of forever? From that perspective the answer is clear.

      Love can mean romance, and love can mean being friends with someone, and wanting them to be happy. But the greatest kind of love is the kind Jesus had for us when he died, though he never sinned, so that we wouldn't have to. That kind of love puts someone's life ahead of everything else. EVERYTHING -- your own life, and even their temporary happiness. Ignorance is bliss for sure, but ignorance is ignorance, and letting someone live ignorantly blissful of the death they face and the life they could have is not love.

      Your view of salvation and the Bible seems to be "works" oriented, but that way doesn't work. If we try to do it ourselves, we will fail every time. But if we put our struggle against sin into God's hands, he will help us. He already did all the work, and made it so easy!

      I really do see from your perspective. I understand what you're saying, and why you believe it. I hope you have done the same for me.

      I would say *especially* in today's world.

      Not at all -- the same goes for me. :)

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    6. Sorry I didn't reply to this in a while! I didn't exactly know what to make of your last couple of paragraphs as I'm not a Christian or even remotely religious, but I appreciate the time and effort you took to make the comments. :)

      I don't think we'll ever get anywhere, not with the homosexuality argument or the abortion argument, simply because you're Christian and I'm an athiest. You're spiritual and I'm scientific. You're free to believe what you want to believe, but I wanted you to know that I strongly believe that everyone should be treated with equal respect regardless of their sexual orientation. And I don't think you can be "cured". Sexualities change, but that makes homosexuality seem like a disease, which is not okay with me. That's what I was talking about when I said "targeting homosexuals". Why target homosexuals and make them cured of their sin, when we're all sinners? Why doesn't the Church try to 'cure' everyone else?

      And my view of the Bible isn't 'works' oriented at all. I know what the message of the Bible is. I know that it's the Biblical view that we need God's help. I know, even though I'm an athiest, I know but don't believe. Simple as that. :)

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    7. (I know you didn't explicitly say 'cured' but it's been pointed out before, and because you think it's a choice, you believe you can choose not to be homosexual, that's what I was getting at.)

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